that you're gonna have a negative thought that you've heard before and that thought is gonna impact your emotions and Therefore your response, right?
And so then they start to understand they're like, oh my goodness like that totally happens So then we talk about this idea of affirmation How are you? I'm so good. I'm so excited to talk with you So I'm gonna have you introduce yourself here in just a second, but I was I was on your podcast a couple weeks ago and You asked us the best questions. So I'm like a little bit nervous, but I have good questions But also I know we have such good rapport and I'm just so cure I have so many things in my mind and it's gonna be hard to whittle down the questions But I just want to pick your brain for a little while. Is it okay?
Yeah, let's do it Let's do it. My answers are just as good as my question. So you'll be alright Dr. T for those of us that don't know much about you I know I told you you had me at college wrestler, but let's go. Let's start there. Tell us a little bit about yourself Yeah, let's start there. So I was a NCAA division one college wrestler After I graduated I became a teacher and a coach which has kind of always been my passion Then I went to medical school got my MD at the University of Maryland Went on and did my residency at Johns Hopkins Hospital both in adult psychiatry as well as child and adolescent psychiatry So I'm a double-boarded adult and child and adolescent psychiatrist I'm also a TEDx speaker. I have a podcast that you've been on the mindset experience I'm the medical director for the hidden opponent, which is a top nonprofit for student athlete mental health And honestly the thing that I'm probably the most proud of is none of those things It's the fact that I still compete and train Like a competitive athlete and in a variety of competitive events and to me I'm a big believer and we talked about this is that if we're gonna teach it We need to live it and when you've kind of gone through and you've done the work and you continue to do the work I think the ability to connect with your Audiences in whatever capacity that is and to be able to stay authentic and humble and relatable Really comes from going through those struggles.
So, you know, I choose to do hard things with purpose and they've Allowed me to be able to kind of capitalize and utilize all of my previous experiences and bring them to light today Yeah, absolutely. I mean speaking of hard things I want to hear a little bit about Just your work, I mean you're an entrepreneur your doctor like tell me about like, you know, we're on Friday I know Fridays are a little bit more of your free day, but you said you had a really busy day You got us in tell me about what your work is like what's a breakdown like you're working with athletes Are you doing more psychiatry? Are you doing more what we call mental performance like talk to me a little bit about your day-to-day? For sure for sure So the short answer is yes, I do all of those things, but it's a little bit broken down So probably 40% of my practice maybe 40 to 50% of my practice is true mental health So diagnosis evaluation treatment prescribing medications when appropriate And that's and I work with kids adolescents and young adults doing that another Let's say 60 50 60 percent of my practice is working with athletes Specifically and in that capacity I'm doing both psychiatry with athletes who have come to me Specifically for that reason but a lot of it is more sports performance and performance related stuff mindset training And again incorporating those some of those other concepts because athletes are people and people have mental health Vulnerabilities like they have physical health vulnerabilities and so in our sessions in our work, you know Anxiety or depression or learning differences or substance use a variety of other things are gonna come up in Also in the context that they're impacting performance right and impacting the ability to enjoy What you're doing and being able to excel so one of the benefits that I have is that being a medical doctor and being a psychiatrist in that capacity allows me to sort of address it in tandem as part of the Experience and not having to stop and pivot That's what I do in the office, but then I'm also working with teams and going and doing presentations And working with different programs Developing programming so that's also, you know, it's hard to put a percentage on that But that comes up when it comes up and those things are scheduled And then you know, there's the podcast and there's everything that comes with that that you know is a ton of work but the ability to develop relationships and even to sort of Put yourself in a situation when you have to think about what you're saying and how you're saying and how you're articulating Right like makes you I think better at what you do in your day-to-day work as well Because you're on a spotlight with people that are you know, generally pretty high achieving and have done a lot And so you really have to be thinking about how am I gonna how am I gonna ask these questions phrase these questions? So I appreciate what you said earlier about my questions But there's a lot of a work and thought and intention that goes in that you know If you're giving me your time and you're gonna come on I need to make it a worthwhile experience for you not just trying to Get what I need from it, right?
I want you to walk away and say well, that was a really great conversation I won't have them on my podcast. So here we are Yeah, okay, so so many ways I want to go with this But did you foresee when you were in med school? Like did you for I will let me go back to your college wrestling days You know, I was gonna go there because I told you I haven't a fit in my brothers were wrestlers Like I went to Iowa State like wrestling is a whole thing even though I never really done it Except been to practice at me for my brothers and they come home from practice, right?
But tell me about like to do mental performance training I always say people get into it and upper you obviously it's like high at tree as well But for I see people either get into it because they didn't get it when they needed it Or they did get it and they want to pay it forward and I would say the the Former they're often like a little bit pissed that they didn't get it when they needed it Tell me which which of those you follow under So I didn't get it. I mean we had when I was in college and I think you and I are roughly around the same age I might be a little bit older, but you know, I graduated college in 1999, right? So There was a Psychologist on staff, which is still what a lot of schools do, right? But they were sort of a scholar a psychologist for the whole school and it was sort of brought up that you know Hey, this is a resource we have for anybody has an issue a problem You know, I think it was certainly not talked about as much then as it is now Most of us including myself didn't necessarily identify that we had a problem. We just wanted to get better and You know, we were male athletes and and predominantly in a sport that is very misunderstood But it's kind of like look figure it out, right? Like other people are gonna understand your sport.
So like Stop doing things for other people like you just write you figure it out and you work harder and You know, you put yourself in uncomfortable difficult situations and you take pride in the fact in some ways that you are misunderstood I mean, right think about this as wrestlers so many people like oh like what is that thing you're wearing? Like what is that a leotard is unit heart? It's a single like what are these positions you're doing? I don't understand like Yeah, like and so there's a point where you stop trying to explain it You're like, you know what? I love the fact that nobody gets it except for us Like we're a special breed because it's so unique the workouts are so unique the weight cutting is so there's all these layers to the sport Yeah, why I bring that up is I think then in some ways especially at that time wrestlers were more vulnerable because there is a lot of Challenge and there's a lot of difficulty that comes with it But even like other people don't even understand our college athletic and what it means, right?
Like we're the only team that runs around with plastic suits on like we're the only team They can like look at a piece of food and essentially tell you exactly what that's gonna look like on a scale, right? Like like That's weird and so It was something I didn't get but it wasn't also it was something I didn't really seek out What I did notice was that there was a difference between how I performed in practice and how I performed in matches Right and that became it was evident in high school, but it was more exaggerated in college And so there were situations where I felt like I could have been much more competitive And much more successful Had I not gotten in my own way, but I did what most other athletes did is I just worked harder Right and I just went back to work and I did the physical training Um, so that was a part of it to be honest though that didn't really like Like my fire to say this is what I want to do what it was was teaching and coaching like being an athlete and being Impacted by different teachers and coaches and mentors like that's what I wanted to do And so it was this idea of how can I teach and coach right and so initially I did um And what led me to med school was really in some ways driven by my parents Really encouraging me to seek out a higher level of education so that I would be financially stable Right and understanding listen you have the ability and the capability To get a higher level of education and to be fair my dad was a doctor And so that was something that you know there was a bias and my mom was an educator But they were like Why would you and these are their words? But they were like, why would you settle to be a teacher or a coach? When you could be a doctor and I said because it's what I love and they were like, yeah, but What you're not seeing is how much they're stroke how much out how many hours they're putting in And how much they're getting compensated for it like and how much time it's taking away from their families and these road trips And all these things that you think are cool because you're going on a one-of-four day road trip with your teachers and coaches You know like that's what you see But you're not seeing like all of the effort that puts in all the lesson plans your teachers are doing and my mom is an educator She says you don't understand how much work I put in and how much I make it doesn't add up and so if you're going to You know Impact the world or impact people go into something that gives you some financial security And so I applied to med school almost like let's see what happens Right like if I have an opportunity, let me see what happens And then you know and I'm happy to share the story of how I got in which tied directly back to my wrestling experience actually and That allowed me to sort of have an opportunity to say okay like now that I'm going to be a doctor Let me explore all these different avenues and all these different specialties But it kept coming back to relationships. It kept coming back to like teaching mentoring coaching and so For me psychiatry is what fit that bill the most um, but I almost didn't go into psychiatry Because I didn't feel myself necessarily relating to the other people in that profession Right and being on a team You kind of like rally around your team like those are your people and I was trying to find my people And I realized my people are not in med school Like and it's not to be disrespectful or knock on people in med school, but those weren't my people So I realized if you're going to go in this route Rather than trying to find your people Make yourself the best version of yourself right and impact your people in a different way And so it was sort of this evolution that went In different ways that got me to where I am sitting in front of you Yeah, I mean I totally relate to that not the med school component but just the idea of like finding your people and like you're Like the sports world I think especially at the level that you competed at we both competed at it's like It gets in your bones like sports and it's like There's plenty of other things that are really hard and have so much respect for But I kind of always see things through the lens of sports And when I go to places where there are other athletes, especially that have played at a really high level There's just an understanding of what it takes to be at that level And so you kind of want to be around it more like you said because it feels like your people So I totally get that um I'm interested, you know, we have Obviously people that go through our certification They're listening to this that are coaches that are interested in like mental performance as um You know arena of a discipline, right? And then we have people that are like mental health counselors therapists All of that like licensed in something and then we do have some doctors and psychiatrists, but probably not as many Like what is your what are your thoughts in particular between like Mental health versus mental performance. You kind of touched on it a little bit in the beginning But it is a question that I hear a lot.
So let's just say people that are licensed and or have degrees Versus what someone like what that I do, which is like mental performance. Where do you see that line? Is it challenging for you?
I know it's nice because you have that range But where do you see the the line if you will? Yeah, so If it's okay, I'm gonna answer your question in like two parts One is from my standpoint from my standpoint Again being a mental health professional and being a medical doctor and being a mental performance coach I see that they're The line is, you know, it's very continuous like they're all one they they all relate to each other like to me If you're going to be strong in your mental performance, you need to be strong in your mental health, right? And again, like if you're going to be strong in your physical performance, you need to be strong in your physical health like you need to You know Have strong strength and conditioning. You need to have good flexibility. You need to take care of your nutrition your sleep I mean all of those things in terms of allowing your body to be healthier are going to directly Allow you to optimize your performance, right on the court on the mat on the field wherever, right? And so to me Physical health is a precursor to physical performance.
Unfortunately. I don't think we think of mental health the same way Which is part of the problem. But I think that mental health is a precursor and is a part of mental performance because if you are psychologically aware and adaptable and resilient and able to Acknowledge what's going on and even accept the feelings to come with them and be able to create plans of action Then you're going to be able to be stronger in what you're doing, right? And your performance is going to be optimized So I think it's very very important And I think one of the the the privilege that I have if you will Of being in the position that I'm in is being able to integrate them and create sort of In some ways, you know a comprehensive Coaching model, right if you will that like, you know, we can go here and we can go here But if you're struggling we can pivot and integrate this we don't have to stop That's my perception now on the other side of it I don't necessarily think That a certain certification or a certain degree or a certain license makes you More qualified than somebody else like I think these are levels of education That give us some background and maybe some science Um, and it's important to learn things in a textbook to get some understanding But the reality is where you're going to learn the most is in your work And I I have seen people In the mental health field, let's say that have high high levels of degree But are not people that I feel comfortable sending somebody to because the ability to truly make somebody feel Heard and listen to and that level of empathy and respect if you will Right is not always there and then I've seen people that quote-unquote lesser degrees That I feel more comfortable because they're willing to learn they're willing to ask questions They're willing to collaborate and they think of this as part of Hey in order for me to provide the best level of care for this person I need to surround myself with a great team right in order for a head coach to be a great head coach They need to have great assistance and people that can do things that they can't do and they need to be willing to bring in people From the outside that are going to help them become better, right? Like we know this in the coaching world.
We know that that if a coach is trying to do everything by themselves They're not going to be effective and they get in their own way So to me the value that I see in our space is somebody like yourself who may be on paper has a different level of Qualification certification and I don't mean level one's higher than the other. I mean, they're just different right but We've both been through it, right? We're both willing to learn from each other right. That's what we're doing through each other's podcast We've talked about ways of collaborating and so to me That's where the beauty is is that if you're willing To work with other people and you're willing to do it to the best interests of the athlete Not hey, I'm better than you because of x y and z or I have this and that's good enough Like that's getting away from the athlete. That's putting it more on you and that's where we get in each other's way Yeah, I really I do want to say though like as um, you know, one of the questions that I will get In my own work for sure and with my students is Let's say I have a client and I don't know if this is a fair question to ask A doctor, but I'm going to anyway and you can tell me if it's not Let's say I have an athlete and we're working together. We're working together and then there's these red flags That are bumping up against my training, right? At what are those red flags? In the sense of like this is beyond my training.
I need to send them to dr. T. For example Like what are those things that someone that is certified or studied mental performance training or gotten certified but don't have the Their professional license or professional degree. What are those red flags? I need to listen to you say, oh, we need to refer this out Yeah, so I think there's a couple right the first one Is is not what you're going to expect that I'm going to say probably the first one is If you're qualified and you know the work that you do and you know typically How it goes and sometimes it's harder than others and you meet more resistance, but you generally know lindsay like When I get in with somebody like this is what I expect to see and if you're starting to say, hey, I'm not seeing that But I'm like I'm working pretty hard like I don't know what I'm missing Then that's a red flag within yourself to say hey Maybe I need some help right like this may for whatever reason this is not going in the direction that it typically does So is it an issue of like they're not doing the work and they're lazy and they're not sly bought in or sit there for whatever reason something's missing And if you can't identify it you don't need to identify you just need to know hey something is not going the direction that it It typically goes. It's not as smooth as it typically is So let me at least reach out.
It doesn't mean you have to refer to dr. T but like if you have dr. T in your kind of Yeah Circle like call dr. T and be like hey, this is what I'm seeing. What do you think? Am I missing something?
What should I be asking? And that to me is going to allow you to potentially go even further than you typically would and you don't have to stop because you built that relationship But beyond that I think is if you notice that look Somebody is really really diss like they're more and more disengaged. They're more isolative Um, they're having emotional reactions that they can't even identify and don't make sense They're putting in all the work, but they're actually not they're not getting better And they're getting even maybe worse Um, right like those are things where you start to see these trends that are starting to Kind of point you in the direction of like We're actually not making progress that if anything like there might be a mood component.
There might be an anxiety component There might be some other things that are going on right? Is there an injury that they're just they're not necessarily progressing from and we're doing the work but like That's not necessarily they're not Progressing the way that they should and if anything maybe they're actually starting to have more limitations That would be something but their doctor, you know in terms of their physical therapist or their Sports med doc is like no everything looks good structurally everything looks good And you and I both encountered other people like this on our teams Um, those are things and so, you know, it's interesting You didn't use this word and I appreciate that you didn't but people asked me a lot like what's normal I don't use the word normal anymore because normal to me is a very abnormal like concept But like what's typical and what's atypical so people are going to get frustrated. They're going to doubt themselves They're going to get scared.
Um, they're going to question themselves. They're going to have quote-unquote negative self-talk Like that's all typical right like that's part of the human experience is part of the athletic experience you and I know that but when somebody is really Really really getting to a point where they can't get out of it And they're like, I don't know why I keep thinking this way, but I can't stop And they're again not necessarily seeking out support and they're withdrawing and they're isolating and they're getting more down or more Sad or more irritable or like some of their other like, you know, their sleep is being affected more so And that's a change typically or their appetite's being affected more so um, those are things that I think would at least Cause me to think hey this might be there might be something else that's Getting in their way of making progress and that might be a time to reach out Yeah, yeah, I I can see all those being Wait and like I like what you're saying is it like ask more questions You know, I think a lot of our coaches are in these situations where they're talking to the young athlete and they're like should I bring these things up with the parent and I mean, it seems like you know, there's a confidentiality piece which you have to address of course, but like the idea that like the To use your word like normalizing the mental health struggles Is is like a great idea also like to have these conversations and reach out and talk about because what we do From a mental performance coaching standpoint is so nuanced, right? Like every human being is so different So I think it's a really good idea to just keep having those conversations. This is what I mean Yeah, and even I mean to your point like asking their like if you're asking their parents say look, can I ask your parents like What they're noticing, right?
Like what's helpful for me to know, right? So not even saying like hey, this is what I'm seeing in my sessions, right? But telling learning from them like what are you guys seeing at home? Um, or even to the athlete like what is what are you noticing outside of your sport? Um in terms of like school or like your relationships like your ability to stay engaged like man I just can't show up to practice just like don't want to be a practice like okay What about like when you're with your friends like if your friends are like hanging out or whatever like what you're so you can ask about How they're approaching their interactions and quote-unquote their mental performance outside of their sport And that's also going to potentially give you an indication because if everything else is going well It's in the sport Then that might be more of a mental performance quote-unquote issue But if it's like look now even in their friendships and their relationships or at school like they're just checked out They're not putting in the work Hmm like now it might be something bigger because it's not it's not necessarily about the context of the sport It's about their life experience and that might kind of tip you off a little bit as well I think that's a really good point a really good red flag to look out for okay So i'm interested now in some of the details of your work And I'd love to focus on like let's say you know you go into your workshop I saw some pictures on your website like you're talking to a baseball team right And one of those athletes or their parents comes up and says dr. T I want you to work with little johnny or little susie on You know mental performance for baseball or softball or what have you and let's say there's No sort of mental health challenges. They don't need the dr. T psychiatrist.
They just need you as a mental performance So at least for now as you said you never know right? What like how do you and I know this is like Hard to say but give me an example of like what you would do with them like let's say they're coming to you For they're not playing great in games Um, they're really nervous They don't seem to have confidence um Maybe they want to play in college and they're you know feel pressure from the parents They feel pressure from college scouts like talk me through Like how long do you work with them? I'd probably probably really depends But give me like an idea of what you work on on with them and all that.
Yeah, no problem. Um so Regardless of what they come in for right it could be hey I'm playing great and I want to be better like I want to be a pro athlete like or it could be hey I'm really struggling and there's all these other things going on in my life regardless The first session that I have is pretty extensive. It's 90 minutes um So I will depending on the age of the person But like if they're in an age where their parent is still involved in any capacity. So really even young adults I'll meet with the parent first And I'll get background information again family history uh social history educational history medical history um psychological history psychiatric history like I and I make it clear that I want to learn about your athlete As an athlete but also as an individual, right? So I really want and I want to give the parent a chance to talk right because a lot of times like They're talking and coaches are dismissing them because they're like yeah, like I don't talk to parents, right? Um, and then they find other people to talk to so on some level It's like and they're paying for it right to be honest So like I want to give them a time to express their viewpoint Without the without their athlete or without their child in the room Then I meet with the child alone Right or the athlete and I want to get their perspective, right? And I've gotten some background history and again, there might be things that parents Here's the other thing There might be things that are helpful for me to know about but the parents do not want to say in front of their kid So if I only go from an athletic standpoint Like I don't know if mom or dad had some sort of issue where they had a traumatic injury As an athlete and then they never recovered from it and they've never regret, you know, blah blah blah where they You know they fell short of meeting their goal of being a pro athlete and now like everything has gone into like little johnny Who's been told he's got potential and it's like so like that's helpful for me to know like where because again For a couple hours a day. They're in their sport and that's what we're talking about But for the rest of the time they're at home Right and and their environment and they're and even the conversations that are happening at home And now their family is identifying them or all they talking about is sports or like Is little johnny or little susie or whoever we're talking about like Like are they at home with their with more coaches?
Are they at home with parents? Right like that's helpful to know right because and so like just getting a context of like and you you pick up a lot When you listen to them and their affect and their stuff so that I bring the kid in And it's helpful then because I have some background But I can be like man tell me what's going on with you and blah blah blah, but I can also ask them like how they're What what they get from their parents and like what's helpful and what gets in their way? And so that also gives me a sense of comparison. So I look at it in some ways from a true true like Diagnostic mental health physician lens Because there's things sometimes that I find That I never would have found had I not asked that may not be pertinent now, but they'll come up later Right. Um, and maybe there were some other injuries in the past or maybe there was some sort of Something happened with a coach in the past and this comes up a lot We're like some interaction happened with a coach where now they're basically scared of messing up And they're basically scared of getting pulled because of the reaction that they had in the past And so fast forward now that's getting in their way Even though they're the star player and even they have a supportive coach They're wondering when that's going to happen if I didn't ask about those things and I just over right into it I wouldn't know so Well It's and then I kind of then the last 30 minutes if you will if we're going to like divide it up is truly like Setting the stage and educating them about the importance of mindset mental performance Because even though they've come to me They believe I you know the assumption is that they they're bought in But like we don't know did they come to me more because it was mom and dad saying hey This is a great idea and I signed you up. Is it because the kids like man I heard dr. T and lindsay talking on a podcast and I want to work with them, but like just helpful to Take a little bit of time to sort of explain to them what this looks like what the process is And then from there What I've created is a mental skills training program. So there's a systematic component that I teach them on, and that has a certain amount of sessions. Each session is like a teaching, coaching session where I'm introducing certain concepts. What I do, which I think is important, is really explain to them the biology and the psychology and the language that they understand. It's also part of my strength, and it's part of what I can do.
So helping them understand how their brain learns, how their brain processes certain things, teaching them these skills in a way that they can understand it, they can understand the why, how it works, how to do it, training them in the sessions, and then being able to give them work, if you will, outside of the sessions. What I have found. Can you give me an example of like, so I want to go ahead. Go ahead. Yeah, go ahead. Can you give me an example of like, because that's one of the things that I'm always trying to iterate on as far as like, putting, and I mean, your psychiatric training, like the amount of complicated material that you've had to learn, it's not the level that I've learned it at, but even the level that I've learned it at, I find it very challenging to simplify it in a way that still gets across the core things that an athlete needs to know in a way that they can understand that is also interesting.
Right? Do you have an example of like, one component that you teach? Yeah, so, and some of the things that I teach are things that other people teach, but I just teach it in a different way, right? Like, so it's not necessarily that I've created like, I mean, I remember one of the best compliments I ever got, which was started with, hey, I'm sorry, don't take this the wrong way, what you do is very simple. And I was like, yeah, totally.
And I was like, but that's the beauty of it. So, okay, like one example would be, one example would be, and I don't know if you use the word affirmation statements, people use that word a lot. I've gotten away from the word affirmation statement. I call it a signature statement now. Right.
And here's, and here's where I'm going with this, right? We talk so much about positive self-talk. People talk about this all the time, like positive self-talk, it's important to be positive, you know, tell yourself these things, like people say you write it, you write it on a mirror, like people go all over this, right? It's a big thing, right? But I think part of it is under helping people understand.
So, just to give you some background and, you know, when I'm discussing that concept, one is I explain the relationship between thoughts, emotions and actions, right? And I'll draw it, right? There's a triangle called the CBT triangle that you're probably familiar with. I'll draw it on the board and I'll draw how that connection is between our thoughts, our motions and our actions, right? And I'll give an example of like, look, when you're thinking this, you're probably going to feel this, right?
And that's going to be your response to your action, right? When you're thinking this. So, I explain that. I also explain that on average, human beings have up to 60,000 thoughts that go through their head on a given day. 80% of them are negative and 90% of them are repetitive, right? So, we have all these thoughts and they'll be like, huh, and I'll be like, think about it, like on a given day, and they're like, you're right, like my mind is just things are going in, going out. Like, yes, so you have up to 60,000 thoughts, 80% of them are negative and 90% of them are repetitive.
And the more we hear something, the more we believe it. And then I go further and say, so despite the fact that you have all these thoughts, you can actually, you can only focus on one thought at any given time, right? The brain can only process one thought at any given time.
So, if you leave it up to chance, chances are that you're going to have a negative thought that you've heard before, and that thought is going to impact your emotions and therefore your response, right? And so, then they start to understand they're like, oh my goodness, like that totally happens. So, then we talk about this idea of affirmation statements, which everybody talks about, right? And I ask them, like if they've heard of affirmation statements, they've understood it.
Most of the time, they're like, yeah, I'm like, give me an example. You got this, you're strong, you're capable, like you're the hardest worker on the field. Great.
Okay. And then I say, when do most people say those things to themselves? And they're like, what do you mean? I was like, when do most people use those statements?
And they're like, before a big game, or after they mess up, right? And I'm like, huh. So, then I go back to that triangle. So, when you have a big moment where you mess up, what's your emotional response? And they're like, I'm nervous, I'm anxious, I'm frustrated. I'm like, so that emotion is impacting that thought. And your thought at that time is, I don't have this, I'm not strong, I'm not that good.
And so, in that moment, if you choose in that moment to say, I got this, I'm amazing, how effective is it going to be? And they're like, not really. Right? So, I talk about this idea that like affirmation statements in theory, in theory, it's a great concept. But usually, we say these things only when we're struggling, only when we doubt ourselves. In these moments where our emotions are already impacting, and we already have a negative thought in that spot. So, that thought is taking up that spot. And so, if that's the moment that you try to like tell yourself, you're amazing and you got this, it's not going to be very effective. And it's not going to be consistently effective.
So, I talk about this idea of signature statements, meaning something that you create ahead of time, right? You don't wait as a basketball player to pull out like this amazing shot, only in these big moments. No, you drill your layups, you drill your three-pointers, you drill them at nauseam. And so, when you're on the biggest stage in the biggest moment, you've already been there, your brain has already seen you do it over and over again. And so, it's confident that if I get the ball, I'm going to make this shot, right? Now, whether you make this shot or not is another thing, but you're confident going into it because you've seen it over and over again, you've done it over and over again, right? And so, if you're going to take a statement and you really wanted to have an impact, like make it something that you identify with, make it something that you hear over and over again, because the more you hear it, the more you're going to believe it, right? And so, then we come up with a statement. I give them examples of statements I use in my life and the context that I've used them in and when I've gotten away from them and what...
So, I share then personal experiences, but that's an example of something that I think people say all the time, positive self-talk affirmations, positive monitoring. Like we all say it, it's so played out, but why does it work? And how do you actually do it so that it works? And I think very few people truly explain that. But when you understand the thought process and the impact and the interaction with your emotions and your actions and the fact that you get to choose the thought you put in, and if you put that thought in, then another thought can't get in that spot, now you're empowered to start to use these things more consistently, right? And you're more cognizant of what you say and how you say it, right? So, that it's not just like in these big moments, but it's something that you consistently do over and over again. Because again, with any physical skill, we wouldn't say, okay, we're not going to practice this or we're only going to practice this in key moments. It's like, no, like we practice this so many times you're like, Coach, why are we doing this stupid thing?
This is never going to happen. But when it happens, you're like, wait, I know exactly what to do, right? And you lock right in, same thing, but we just do it differently. So, that's kind of a longer answer, but that's an example of really understanding the context and what's happening up here.
And then once you understand how that muscle works, you can do things that are more consistent with optimizing it. I love that. I always talk about like, it would be like, in the middle of the game, like wondering how to get in better shape, you know, like your team's gassed and now is the time to try to figure out again. Like, I totally should have worked out harder. Like, I totally shouldn't like, okay, well, you should have figured that out.
Like, yeah, I totally shouldn't have gone out three nights in a row when we had a, yeah, a little too late. So, exactly. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. I'm going to still pick your brain.
I have to ask, like, how, when you're explaining, let's say I'm a, I don't know, 17 year old basketball player, which I was at some point, and do you explain to that athlete, like how the subconscious brain works, for example? And if you do, how so? Yeah, so I do.
I do. And what I do is I will explain to them, so when you're talking about the subconscious brain, I'm assuming, and tell me if I'm wrong, but I'm assuming you're talking about kind of getting into the zone or the flow state. Well, that too, but also how, like, when you're talking about, like, goal setting, and you, you know, I use, like, the elephant in the rider analogy, right? Like, you want to go somewhere for your goals, and until you get your subconscious on board, because it's all, like, built up on our limiting beliefs, like, it's not going to actually do the work to get there, right?
It's always going to kind of, like, set self sabotage, hold you back, keep you in your safe zone, like it's there to protect us. But I mean, I'm also interested in how you do it on the zone and in the flow too. So I don't know how much time we have, but yeah, so I mean, explaining it is really important. Yeah. So in short, I think it's part of it is when I, when the reason I asked about the zone is because the zone, right, when people talk about getting into the zone, it's essentially getting into your subconscious, right? It's where you're awake, but you're not really alert, like you're not overthinking, you're not, you're like, you're just doing, right? And so the reason I asked that is that way is I'll actually draw out, like, I'll draw out what, like, brain activity looks like when you're fully alert and conscious, right? I'll draw out what brain activity looks like when you're completely unconscious, right? And then I'll draw out what brain activity looks like when you're subconscious. And I'll explain how that, how that's a real brain state. It's an actual brain state and why that's the zone, right?
And why that's the flow state. And so I, part of it is I educate on terms, terms that are used frequently, but very infrequently understood, right? And sort of really giving like a little bit of a, like a background in a context of like the dictionary of like, what are these words that we're using?
Now we can use them, right? So I think that's important. When it comes to like goal setting, my approach tends to be a little bit potentially different as well is, you know, what I do is I talk about goals. And that's one of the skills that I teach, and we'll draw, we'll write their goals out.
But then also talk about like how, with goals, for example, most of the time when people set goals, they'll say what they want to do, right? I want to be a pro athlete. I want to be an all American.
I want to be, you know, lead the team and this, that or the other thing, right? And then academic goals. I want to have straight A's.
I want to be Dean's List. I want to go to a good college, whatever it is that they say, right? I'm always fascinated with people like I want to go to a good college. I'm like, so what does that mean to you? Like to find good for you, like, right? But we outline what is, and I'm like, okay, so these are the things that you want to do.
These are the, you know, and I talk about that these are products, right? And I also go on to say that 90 some percent of people that set goals, this is the kind of goals that they set, right? So the people that you're competing against, these are the same kind of goals that they have, right? The people that are in the, you know, in the NBA, these are the same kind of goals they had, right? The people that never made the NBA, same kind of goals, right?
They did, right? Like you think about it, every athlete grows up, I want to be a pro athlete, I want to be an all American, I want to be like, that's what they do. And I also explained that 90 percent of people that set, or that 90 some percent of people that set New Year's resolutions, this is the kind of goals they have. And I go on to say that 90 percent of New Year's resolutions fail. And this is exactly why is people talk about what they want to do, but not how to do it. And so to your point, that's the conscious, like what you want to do, but like how to do it is where they stop.
They don't, they don't get there, right? And then I talk about the importance of the process and how to do it and how to break that down. And, and again, we get like technical, man, like how many steps, like how many steps are appropriate?
What's the best way to do it? They're like, well, I got to do the work. Okay, I want to know what that means. So, and the reason I say all this is once they're very clear, once it's very, very clear on the process, and they get sick of me saying the word process, and I tell them you're going to get sick of me saying the word process. Once they understand the process, then they can just do it.
Then they can just do it. And that's where you get to that subconscious to use your word. You know, it's like once you put your directions in, you know, Google Maps or Waze, and you look at it, and you understand, okay, this is going to take me on this road and it's going to take me in this direction. So once you've put the directions in and you've seen here, here, here, and you've looked at it, now you just go.
And it tells you, go left, go right, go up here, blah, blah, blah, right? Like, you don't have to overthink. And so part of it is taking the time and not just knowing your destination, but also understanding the process, the roadmap to get there, and then like looking at it, being clear on what it is. And then you just do the steps. And once you do the steps, you're not overthinking, can I do it?
Can I not? Am I going to get there? What if I don't get there?
No, you just do the steps. And so that gets you more into the subconscious where you're awake. You know, but you're not like overly alert or overly aware, you're just following the steps. And very few people follow the steps, very few people even know what the steps are. And if they have steps, they have like 100 steps. And they're like, well, this is too much, I'm never going to get there.
And so they never get there. So the other thing that's really important to understand is it should always be three to five steps. Three to five is the magic number. And so give me an example. So like if I'm a 15 year old basketball player, I'm going to play at college or I'm, you know, I started thinking about it at like 12.
So would that be like, you got to make JV and then you got to make varsity and then you like, what are the steps? Because those are just other products. Right?
There's just other products. Like I need to, this is my training plan kind of thing. Exactly. So it's like, okay, if you want to be in the NBA or you want to make JV, I mean, the plan is the same, right? To make the NBA, theoretically, you should make varsity. Right. And if you want to make varsity, like you might have to go through JV, like, I'll have Michael Jordan and a lot of other people, like, you're not above it. So those, and, but it's funny you say this because that's what people say. They're like, okay, my process is I make JV and then I make varsity and then I make college and then I get drafted.
No, those are just outcomes. You're still telling me what you want to do. You're not telling me how to do it. So what do you need to do?
How are you going to get there? Okay, I need to work on my shooting. Great. How are you going to do it? Okay, I'm going to practice 53 point shots, you know, 10 from, you know, five different locations.
Great. How many times a week? And sometimes they'll be like seven days a week. I'm like, no, how many times are you actually going to do it? Like, okay, three times a week, I'm going to do 53 points, three pointers. Great.
We write it down. Okay, what else do you need? Well, I need to do my layup. Okay, how are you going to drill that?
Okay, I'm going to do that X amount of week. Okay, what else is important? And they always go to the technical piece. And then we get to the, okay, like, but if you're going to be able to run up and down a court and keep up with higher level players, oh my conditioning. Okay, so what are we going to do there? Well, I'm going to run. How many times a week? What are you going to do? What's your conditioning workout? Be specific.
And then we go even further, like, okay, that's great. What else do you need? Like, what else is important? What else are the top and not, and again, the younger players are going more physical training because that's what they're taught. Right. So if I'm the fastest and I make the most shots, I'm going to be the best player. But what they neglect and we talk about is like nutrition, hydration, sleep, like these are other things that are going to set you apart because every other 12 year old who wants to be in the NBA is doing 53 pointers and layups and like that's what they're doing.
But they're not going to bed at 9pm. Yeah. Huh. So okay, I'm going to go to bed early. No, what time? And like, I don't set it for them, they said, I'm like, they're like, 8pm. I'm like, really, you're going to go to bed 8pm.
They're like, okay, nine. Okay. And what time are you going to get up? So we've write it all out. Now when they look at the process, I'm like, huh, so if you did 53 point shots, three times a week, and you did X amount of layup drills, and you did this kind of workout, and you did, you went to bed every night at 9pm. Right?
Like if you did all this, what are the chances that you're going to make JV, then varsity, then college, and they're like much higher. And then they see it, it's like right in front of them. And now they're like, wow, like I can actually do this. Right? And so we really go through it.
And so rather than, and I appreciate the way you asked the question because rather than creating other sub-products, if you will, like what other things they're going to do, like everybody knows you go to JV to varsity, and maybe you skip JV and go to varsity, but like everybody knows that you're not going to go in the NBA from high school unless you're like Kobe or LeBron. Right? Like it just doesn't happen. And so really it's creating this, helping them focus on the work. And then what they can do is they can always come back to that. Right?
And they can improve on that. I mean, really what you're doing is so much of what I talk about with my students is like the building up of belief, because you can see the steps that it's going to take. And then as you're sort of alluding to is like, you can either say, yeah, I'm all in, or that's maybe not for me. Right? But it's like, it's a more honest conversation.
And you know exactly what it looked like. No, you're totally. And when you, when we talked before, and you talked about belief, remember I asked you, I said, like, what do you define as belief and how do you get it? And you talked about building it. Right? But again, it's not just I believe. And everyone's like, man, believe in yourself, you can do it.
Like, you need to have a process. And if you really want to believe in yourself, if you really want to believe in yourself, the way your brain believes is by seeing over and over again. The more you see something, the more you believe it. The more you see your mom waking you up in the morning, putting you bed at night, telling you you're, she's your mom, like feeding you, bathing you, the more you're like, huh, she's my mom. Like you believe that that's your mother because she didn't just say it, but like you've seen actions of taking care, taking care, driving you places, taking care of other people calling you.
So you see it over and over again, and then you believe that your mom, right? And how many people, right? It's not that many, but how many people at some point discover that's actually not their biological mom. And they're like, no, that's my mom.
That's my mom. Like, that's all I've ever known because that's what you've seen. And so the idea here is not that like everybody goes out and questions their parents and saying, are you my real parents? But like, we believe by seeing repeatedly, repeatedly, repeatedly. And so if you're seeing yourself taking shots, taking shots, taking shots, running over and over, you start to believe I can do it.
And the more you try, the more they go in, the more they go in there, you're like, I can do it, right? But people don't realize this. You know, Michael Jordan is a great example for this, for what I'm about to say. But Michael Jordan missed more game money shots than he made.
Right? But people know him for all the game money shots that he took. But he also was willing to take those shots because he had seen himself taking them over and over again. So he believed that if he had the ball in his hands, he would score, right?
Same thing with Kobe, same thing with LeBron, staff, whatever. Sabrina, right? Like these, Caitlin Clark, like the list goes on and on, right? And we're just using your sport, right? Because I'm trying to build rapport with you. But the idea is, the idea is, like all of these people truly, truly believe that if they have the ball in their hands, they're going to make the game money shot. But they don't always. And in fact, one of the greatest players of all time, arguably the greatest, missed more times. But people don't know that everybody believes that he made more game money shots because that's what they saw. So like, if you're seeing yourself doing it every day, you're going to believe, man, I can be an NBA player because like I'm doing the work. And then no matter what, even if you have a quote unquote bad game, you're still going to go back because you believe I can do it. So like, why is Kobe in the gym every morning at 3am, 4am, right?
Because he believes that if he continues to do that, he'll be the best player. Yeah. Beautiful. I have one more question. Now you know, you're looking back on your career and your impact on sports, psychiatry and mental performance. Like what is the one thing that we're going to be like, oh, Dr. T was talking about that thing 20 years ago?
Oh, man. I think when you and you're talking about in terms of a skill, is that what you're talking about? Or yeah, maybe you're a tool or. But something that I've taught somebody else.
Yeah. I think the thing that I hope from a tech, you know, I think the thing I want people to remember me most professionally, professionally is that I kept working out to the end and I was hustling and I was doing the work myself. That's what I hope they learn from me professionally, right?
Yeah. And this is independent of being a great dad. I mean, that's really where I hold my highest level of success is what kind of father I am and what kind of husband I'm and friend. But when it comes to skills, one of the things that I preach and I talk about and I educate about is the importance of gratitude, right? But again, very intentional gratitude.
And it's not just like, be grateful, like, explaining the biology, the psychology, the neuroscience of gratitude, what happens in the brain, right? Like I can teach you that all, you know, another time. I think we have another podcast.
Yeah, we can. And that's a big thing that I teach and sort of how to apply it and the importance of it and really being intentional with it. I think that people, again, people talk so much about gratitude and it's important to be grateful and they go on gratitude walks and they write in their gratitude journal and they do all the gratitude things and it's not to be, you know, and I'm not trying to be dismissive of it, but we do it very passively. It's like our affirmations, like we wake up and we're like, I'm loved, I'm strong, I'm capable. And then we go to our day and we start feeling not strong and not capable and not loved and then we wake up the next morning and we do it again. And we're also like at the end of the night, we're like, oh, right. And we're like, I'm grateful for like my health and my happiness and my family. And then we go and what do we do? We complain about all the things that we don't have.
Right? Like that's what we do. And so part of it is, is gratitude is something that I have made a part of my life, but in a very directive, intentional, competitive way. And so I've trained myself and I train other people in creating what I call a culture of appreciation. And when you can do that, and that becomes a lifestyle and a way of thinking, then even in these tough moments, when you, you know, give up a big turnover, right? Or you make, you know, you lose a big game, the ability to rebound and get excited about the next opportunity is not just going to come from talking about it, it's going to be coming from actually applying it.
And those who work with me, and those who kind of live life close to me, or ones who see it probably more, but I want people to really understand that gratitude is not something that's just about like love and feelings. Like it's a very important part that changes the neurochemistry of how we approach situations. And it actually allows us to be a calmer, happier, and much more resilient. And frankly, we're going to win more. We're going to win more, right? And the ability, even when you look at teams and the way teams approach each other, and like, you know, they did a study recently about high fives, and they talked about like teams that, like the teams that have more high fives, like actually win more, right? But like, it's not just giving, it's like a level of appreciation that like, man, I appreciate your effort. It's an intentional act of respecting somebody's game and appreciating them and showing gratitude, right? And so like, now what happens is like, you start to want to do things because you're being appreciated. And you're appreciating others. Like there's so much that goes into it, which we don't have time for right now.
We can do another conversation. But like, that's where I want people to remember me the most is not just that he was grateful, but he truly taught gratitude in a way that was badass and like, made me want to do it. Because if I'm more grateful, I'm winning, right? And that's at the end of the day, why we're doing it.
That's why people come to work with us. Yeah. Two things.
One, I was doing gratitude all wrong. So I'm so excited to learn from you. I knew that before this, but I know that there's another level coming from you. Also, you just got invited back to the podcast. And third, I think we didn't know the name of the new podcast, which is going to be something about badass gratitude practice with Dr. T. So I think we got that wrapped up. I know you got to go to patient.
I'm sorry for taking actually, I got to go pick up my kids. That's what it is. So yeah, there you go. You're winning it being a dad. Dr. T, it's always such a pleasure. I know our students are going to get so much from this episode. And I appreciate your generous part and sharing all this. And I felt like I'd learned something, a lot of things and laughed and had some fun time with you. So I appreciate you taking the time.
No, thank you so much. And let's do it again. And I'm happy to get on a call with your students and we'll put together something as well.
Like I said, when we first met, there's a lot of opportunities where we're going to be on some kind of a call or a stage or something, doing good work together. So anytime you get a, yeah, anytime a basketball player invites a wrestler onto their floor, you know, to me, I told you in college, I was friends with all the best wrestlers, but I would knock it on the court with them because I know those courts, the one thing like out of control, the thing we've learned about those courts is those courts are so good for rolling wrestling mats out on top of them. They're so smooth. They're so flat. Like you can put so many, you can put so many on a basketball court, you can get so many, so many matches done.
You can only play one game on a basketball court at a time, but you can do probably three matches at a time. So that's true. Yeah. But I appreciate you for inviting me on your podcast and in your court and in your students lives.
Absolutely. Anytime. We'll talk soon. Appreciate you.
Bye. Hey guys, real quick, if you're a coach trying to look for the next thing to do, to improve your own coaching, to understand mental training on a deeper level and to take it to your team, I highly recommend checking out psychology of competition. This is our course that's, I think we teach like if we were going to come in and work with your team, any of our certified coaches or a specific athlete on your team that wanted to improve their consistency, their confidence, their performance, we would teach them these, these skills. And it's really simple. It's really implemented. It's really easy to implement, but they are very, very powerful. And if you want to do this with your team, it is the most cost effective way to do it. It will improve your coaching. There are tools that you can implement for your own competition on game day, your own mental approach to competition. So if you're looking for a way to improve your coaching, maybe you've thought about getting certified, but you're not ready for that or what have you, and you want something that's simple, that's affordable, I highly recommend checking out psychology of competition. It's on our website at positiveperformancetraining.com. If you click on courses, it's a DIY course, you have lifetime access, and it gives you all of the tools, the worksheets, the videos, the MP3s that you can implement this with your team and improve their performance today. Click the link in show notes or go to our website to get yours.
